That's unfortunate that you had health problems as a result of your practice. A competent qigong master would not have put you in such a situation... or know enough to advise against practicing this form. Hopefully your practice has returned you to good health?

" agree, nei kung training should only be done with someone who knows what to teach.

one of the reasons i gave up pursuing may forms of qi gong that are taught in the US is that they're designed for men, and they cause health problems for women (i undid years of acupuncture treatments with three months of qi gong that was designed for men, it was very disheartening).

it's one of the reasons i'm a proponent of taijiquan over qi gong for most westerners who've never done any of this stuff, i never had any problems with chronic health problems recurring after taijiquan practice."

That's the first time I've ever heard of someone undoing accupuncture treatments as a result of Qi Gung for men? What exactly where you doing that was male oriented?

:D

SA

Tribe,

Well sitting here on the other side of the rain clouds here on the summit has brought some time to respond in length on the topic of "Stagnation" and Chi Gung. My response is long. I have many thoughts on this, especially how it relates to an individuals journey towards the state known in Chinese Martial and Healing Arts as "Sung".

"but the exercises aren't going to create the stagnation that advanced static exercises could"

Stagnation

I have been thinking on this, mainly because a close friend has practiced Tai Chi exclusively for 7 years. He came by last month and his hamestrings and low back are locking up and his practice has suffered! I have been thinking a LOT about this and am helping him get on track. His low back and back of legs are stagnated.

Bringing Balance to the Force

Stagnation is a result of lack of movement, of energy, of body. Movement in the body is all contract and expand. There must be balance. Standing practice places primary loads on the system which will make you aware of any weakspots, you will NEED to suppliment your practice with movements that strengthen the whole system, the whole body.

Stillness & Motion - Tools of the Trade

In standing meditation there is suppose to be motion within stillness. Sifu Vendrell emphasised this to me again and again.

Thus there is chi gung that is still and there is chi gung that is moving. Conceptually this breaks down into: movement within stillness and stillness within movement.

These two aspects; movement & stillness are synergetically connected. (duh dave) Applying these concepts geometrically results in the tai chi diagram. (whoa cool)

Each part of the duality having at their CORE the other half.

Stillness transforms into Motion, i.e. we are still and then we move; Motion then transforms to Stillness; and the process continues.

The Practice of Embodiment

Tai Chi as a practiced or "embodied art" is transformed into Chi Gung once the movement sequence is learned. Once the technical aspects are known the practice can take the practitioner on a daily journey. Emobodiment suggests full capacity, and surely what we see in the advanced stages of martial art practice.

A body in which moves with full capacity moves with "whole body movement".

The goal of of chi gung practice is to bring the body into a state of balance, a state of unity. Movement that is in unity is movement that is a result of whole body movement. Whole body movement originates from the center the core. Breath is inteimately connected to power generation. You can not generate power if you hold your breath.

The Core of Practice

Training in Chi Gung is about training your core. Your center. That place in which your life emanates from. Your lifestyle will be reflected in your practice. I would recommend a balanced lifestyle that included as much movement training as standing and proper nutrition. You are what you eat. Breath fresh air and eat good food.

I'll be open in saying I think Chi Gung is a kind of magic pill. REALLY! IT IS! I learned more about myself in the first 5 years of standing then I could ever pay a shrink... BUT... I aliken it to people experimenting with psycho-active drugs. If your mind is a garbage can then wonderland will probably be hell to you. Chi Gung is far more powerful then any drug you could put in your body.

What do you bring to the table when you practice? Remember you are what you eat.

Balance

Standing meditation practice requires a balance between movement and stillness. So what does that mean? It means MOVE BY GOD MOVE! S-T-R-E-T-C-H - PRACTICE! DO SOMETHING!

'Something' has various degrees of "effectiveness" when it comes to how the body is actually moving... so... what do you practice and how long are you standing?

There is a qualitative aspect to moving that most people would rather ignore. Basic errors of posture are the common cause of many back injuries. There is a qualitative aspect to standing that developes in time. The shorter it takes you to get where you are going the better... but wait, where is standing meditation going? What does Chi Gung have to do with the Core? What do Movement Arts have to do with the Core?

The Art of Movement is at the Core

By practicing an art that really embodies "Whole Body Movement" you'll be moving along the necessary lines that allow natural alignments and let the CORE of the body do the "work".

This is the point of all martial art and healing arts. To access initiate and move from the core. The thing that so much mystical language is attached to: Learning how to use the "core" of the human body.

The CORE of Martial and Healing Arts

Standing Meditation is about getting to the Core. About getting to the root of energy in your life. Stillness is the medium in which standing medication makes you Work.

CORE alignments occur in standing meditation when un-needed musclar tensions release, allowing realignment.

By spending time in the standing postures internal processes systematically develop in alignment with the various physiological stages of the practice. I've fond this aspect mostly personal for most artists, who emphasis that the point of practice is not the mind trip or physiological effect, it's the ability to access a state of mind/body consciousness called "Sung".

The Journey to the State of "Sung"

Sung is a chinese word that has been used to describe a unique state of mind / body interaction that is relaxed and without tension physically, while remaining very alert with perhaps even enhanced senses.

Every time Chi Gung is different. Today your shoulder hurts first, then tommorow your hip, the next day your foot, then your toe. Oh back to the neck. I believe this is called "Chasing the Dragon".

After training a while (2 years?) you relax completely into "Sung". Maybe more maybe less I don't care that much. The muscles that need to be engaged are, and the ones that do not, arnt. A state of Sung is neither internal or external.

It could be compared to a state of trance, but unlike the common notions of "trance", "Sung" is a state in which relaxation and tension are the balanced keys to whole body movement. Form is not performed in a state of "sung", it is "experienced". "Sung" is the meditative state state of unity of mind body in which chi gung both strives for in practice, and stands upon as foundation. Spontaneous Balanced and Alive all come to mind when I think of this mental state.

"Sung" and "The Zone"

I would argue that "Sung" is only as trance like as the "zone" of any modern athlete in which they function optimally, with complete physical relaxation and a fully engaged mental activity on the process in front of them. This is easily researched, and personally I have experenced this hundreds of times after engaging in 3 hour grappling practices where as Rickson describes it "you flow with the go".

This is the state of Sung. Relaxing into Activity yet Actively Relaxing. There are many ways to find it. There are many Arts that manifest our truest expressions of our selves.

The Repeatability Factor

Success in practice is the repeatability of this journey to "Sung". Somedays your in the zone, somedays you have bad hair.

Either or what we are examing are the most primary processes of Chi Gung practice, whether you are moving or still, that state of Sung is movement and stillness at once.

Motion and Stillness

It's wise to learn movement along side stillness. Any competent instructor will teach you moving arts along side the standing meditative arts. This is the way to assure growth both physically and psychologically. (or spiritual)

If you engage in practices by yourself that are known to alter your mind-body consciousness, you might find yourself lost in the forest when you could have had a guide. Whole religions are based off the navigation of the mind - body medium.

While I wouldn't lie and say it's all blossoms and cherries, I would throw in the aspect of a treasure map with clues to find the treasure.

All I can say to you right now is that while some practices produce sensations, it is what you practice outside of practice that will change your life forever.

Meditation is powerful and mind / body meditation even more so. Be Wise in your Meditations.

Dave Copeland